Michele says that the visual references Eilish sent for the shoot chimed with the ideas that he had been working on for his own collections, “referencing Hollywood, a world that fascinates me a lot. She is extremely meticulous in the way she reinvents herself.” Eilish predicts one side of the response to the shoot: “‘If you’re about body positivity, why would you wear a corset? Why wouldn’t you show your actual body?’” She raises her eyebrows. “My thing is that I can do whatever I want.” Confidence is her only gospel, she says, yet that intent has been spun into “a lot of weird miscommunications”. She clears it up: “It’s all about what makes you feel good. If you want to get surgery, go get surgery. If you want to wear a dress that somebody thinks that you look too big wearing, f**k it – if you feel like you look good, you look good.”

The celebration of her in opposition to more scantily dressed pop girls concealed a nasty, misogynist (sometimes racist) subtext. It also hurt Eilish, negotiating her own dawning womanhood. “Because of the way that I feel that the world sees me, I haven’t felt really desired,” she says, then sighs. “But that’s really my whole life, though, so I don’t know if it’s anything to do with fame.” She’s noticed a TV trope where as soon as a “classic hot girl” enters a relationship, she undergoes a personality transplant. “She’s this completely different character of wifey,” Eilish says, baffled. “It really f**ked me up. Everybody’s like, ‘You can’t make a wife out of a hoe’ – and it’s like, you’re attracted to that person, though. You created that person.” If those are the terms, Eilish is out. “Suddenly you’re a hypocrite if you want to show your skin, and you’re easy and you’re a slut and you’re a whore. If I am, then I’m proud. Me and all the girls are hoes, and f**k it, y’know? Let’s turn it around and be empowered in that. Showing your body and showing your skin – or not – should not take any respect away from you.”

Eilish is not the first to say it (she admires that multidimensionality in Megan Thee Stallion), though it’s striking to watch a young woman get here on her own timeline. And depressing that she still has to. “I really think the bottom line is, men are very weak,” she says. “I think it’s just so easy for them to lose it. ‘You expect a dude not to grab you if you’re wearing that dress?’ Seriously, you’re that weak? Come on! Go masturbate!”